ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
President Trump has said one of his goals in sending federal agents and the National Guard to Washington, D.C., is to clear out homeless encampments. He has linked them to what he calls out-of-control crime and blight. A week in, the White House says dozens of encampments have been dismantled. But it's not clear where the people who were living in them have gone. NPR's Jennifer Ludden is here in the studio. Hey, Jennifer.
JENNIFER LUDDEN, BYLINE: Hi there.
SHAPIRO: Tell us more about specifically how many places have been cleared out here in D.C.
LUDDEN: So the White House says, over the past week, 44 homeless encampments have been removed. We're talking about small groups of tents in most places. It says this includes all tents that were on federal property and that federal teams reported, quote, "no negative confrontations" and no arrests. And that last point is a relief to local homeless service providers who say they've also not heard of any arrests. But there was another twist that played out this afternoon at a drop-in center that serves homeless people. Word went around that authorities might show up and check if anyone had an arrest warrant, and people there did hurriedly pack up their belongings and leave.
SHAPIRO: So where have people gone who've been forced to move?
LUDDEN: So homeless service providers tell me it is likely that many are still living outside, around D.C., moving to try and evade police or federal agents. They say some have gone to temporary shelters - the district government did make extra beds available - or some have left the city for Virginia or Maryland. I spoke with one man, 39-year-old Greg Evans. He was on a bus, so this recording's not great.
GREG EVANS: I've just been bouncing around some friends' houses for now, trying to figure out what to do next. Currently, I'm waiting on another apartment, but I don't know when that's going to happen.
LUDDEN: So he's on a wait list for a subsidized apartment because he says a drug dealer basically took over the last place he lived. He's had struggles with substance abuse and said he just needed to leave there. That's why he ended up outside again.
SHAPIRO: Wow. And some other Republican-led states have said they are sending hundreds more National Guard soldiers here to Washington. What does this big push mean for the longer-term goal of reducing homelessness?
LUDDEN: You know, the White House has not really talked much about that. It's framed this as about improving public safety. Although advocates point out homeless people are much more likely to be victims of crime than perpetrators. But advocates also say this kind of mass disruption will make it harder to eventually get people into housing. Jesse Rabinowitz is with the National Homelessness Law Center and said he's never seen encampment clearings like this past week.
JESSE RABINOWITZ: It was so fast that I worry people were not able to save vital documents, medication, heirlooms, clothes, things like that.
LUDDEN: And sure enough, Greg Evans, the displaced man I spoke with, says he lost his tent and some clothes.
SHAPIRO: Losing things like family heirlooms must be incredibly traumatic for the people who are displaced.
LUDDEN: It absolutely is traumatizing. And just the mass presence of enforcement officers - this is something else that could make it harder to help people. Adam Rocap with the social services group Miriam's Kitchen - they help connect people to housing.
ADAM ROCAP: It's harder for us to keep up with and find someone, or people trust us less, even though - if we don't have anything to do with the enforcement. Why would they trust anyone who's trying to help if people are getting moved around?
LUDDEN: He and others also point out this federal surge clearly is costing a lot of federal money, and they wonder why some of that couldn't instead be spent on permanent affordable housing.
SHAPIRO: NPR's Jennifer Ludden. Thank you.
LUDDEN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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